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re: the great deception ~ perfection  jason  6 Mar 13 11:47AM Thread Closed

interesting opinion jenn, especially about how everything starts out as 'perfect'. what about when it dies or os destroyed, be it organic or not. does it end its tenure as 'perfect'? having gone through the cycle of being laballed 'imperfect' by humanity?

only to come full course?


> Perfection is the same amorphous thing as "truth". It is only in
> variety of form and function that anything close to perfection is
> found.
>
> It is one of the few absolutes in the universe. Change, contradiction
> and that there are no absolutes.
>
> Perfection is a contradiction in term and being, because everything
> starts as "perfect" without any interference from a human
> objective/subjective aesthetic, yet there is no interpretation of
> "perfection" without a human objective/subjective aesthetic.
>
> The human objective/subjective aesthetic disseminates interpretation
> of "perfection" depending on endless cultural, environmental,
> emotional, psychological, philosophical points of view, and so states
> nothing is perfect and everything is perfect.
>
> Remove this human objective/subjective aesthetic completely from the
> universe and nothing would change about the colour of a flower, the
> shape of a feather, the arrangment of stars in a galaxy.
>
> Nothing would change .. except this human objective/subjective
> interpretation of aesthetic would not exist.
>
> The aesthetic of "perfection" is just as random and chaotic as any
> other part of the self organising system known as the "universe".

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jason  6 Mar 13 11:48AM Thread Closed

starr, i love you. you are a breath of happy fresh air in this stale place. don't change. you are the real deal.

> ^ You GO, boy!  I'm proud of u!  Resolutions aren't always easy, but
> we are all works in progress, myself included.  C-ya, Jason!  :-)

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jenn  6 Mar 13 11:56AM Thread Closed

> What about a flawless diamond? Is that not perfection?


It is only an interpretation of "perfection".

Some may think it is and some may think the way the colours blend on a cherry blossom is a better example of what is the aesthetic of perfection.

That's the eternal contradiction in the human aesthetic.

Both the diamond and the cherry blossom remain as they are - perfect and flawless - with or without any human interpretation, but a value of "perfection" can only be given as a human value on anything.

re: the great deception ~ perfection  starr  6 Mar 13 12:10PM Thread Closed

Aww!  Love you TOO, buddy!  And YOU keep keepin' it real!  :-)

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jenn  6 Mar 13 12:18PM Thread Closed

> interesting opinion jenn, especially about how everything starts out
> as 'perfect'. what about when it dies or os destroyed, be it organic
> or not. does it end its tenure as 'perfect'? having gone through the
> cycle of being laballed 'imperfect' by humanity?
>
> only to come full course?


Death, destruction, change of perception is also a state that might be called "perfection", be it because of a natural cycle of organic or molecular decay or an willfully induced "end", it is because the of "truth" in the anarchist, the capitalist, the artistic primal urges .. "the urge to destroy is a creative urge".

The process of change is so chaotic and so ordered as the system organises itself into componenet parts to be then taken into a new part of the system  it can only be a "perfect" thing.

Paint on a wall. You have destroyed the wall. There is now a work of art that includes the wall. Remove the painting and now you have a wall that was once painted on.

Everything changes, how we as human apply our senses, our personal interpretation to "everything changes" is so individualistic the aesthetic we apply as perfection is governed by endless, infinite variables of "everything".

The imperfection aesthetic is ruled by all the same conditions as perfection. One is not separate from the other.

We perceive a course of "change" because of the sensory perception we have of the flow of time, but consider time as a single event - every moment happening at once all the time everywhere - and change becomes singular so that nothing has a beginning or end, everything simply "is" all the time.

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jenn  6 Mar 13 12:22PM Thread Closed

Everything starrts as "is", as "perfect". There is nothing to define it otherwise.

It is only when the human objective/subjective aesthetic breaks it down into interpretation based on personal values such as taste and emotional attachment does a thing become "perfect" or "imperfect".

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jason  6 Mar 13 12:32PM Thread Closed

i couldn't agree more. brilliantly said.

>
> We perceive a course of "change" because of the sensory perception
> we have of the flow of time, but consider time as a single event -
> every moment happening at once all the time everywhere - and change
> becomes singular so that nothing has a beginning or end, everything
> simply "is" all the time.

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jenn  6 Mar 13 12:53PM Thread Closed

Such is the nature of the universal absolute of contradiction :)

"The more things change - the more they stay the same."

The component parts of this statement seem to defy themselves as logic.

Logic is a human condition, not one the Universe considers a pre-requisite to how things are "ordered".

The perception of "change" is also a human condition, as is the perception of "chaos" and "order".

:-P

re: the great deception ~ perfection  AlchemiA  6 Mar 13 1:02PM Thread Closed

we're a heart-based fractally-flawed mutation courageously risen from the slime --

see the French root of courage, 'with heart' -- viva la couer, à la vie ... like Nietzsche painted in his marvelous, 'Thus spoke Zarathustra', we are a 'bridge,' an interim response toward a loftier goal, toward a farther-further place of which our hearts do know -- we're the quantum-foam on this sea of reality, where the roiling of Natures longing takes us to the next wave of creation. We're a mutation and a momentary play on this thin organic film of symbiotic life on our inextricably intimately evolving Planet. We're this Planets thoughts and meaning. This Planet which longs in swelling waves toward the Stars. From Stars we come to Stars we shall return. Look up! Dream Up! Love up! Burn!


the poet is a mutation --

Poets are imminently realEYEsed -- they look as if they remembered they're partly surrounding Sky and partly the curvature of Sea and partly the silent glittering tears of night in the stars we see - they discovered the way of the whirl'd going 'round and 'round on the edge of space with the law of falling and the law of catching up, bound by an infinite-in grace ... they're nova'd in their hearts 'til their eyes gleam with new rays of possibility bent by the blackhole of their mind
a Poet is like a sphere which has his centre everywhere and her circumference nowhere...

the sound a poet makes when his heart 'n mind meet, the frisson of viscereality where the inner sonics 'n ironics burst into song, there where all her miseries 'n desires belong, but incomplete, in a rhyme beyond reason and the master of absurdity, while truth and beauty spontaneously run around him in nudity --
when a Poet lifts the veil, revealing reality, we are all made greater by this feat! Nature always sends us Visionaries, Poets, Mystics; mutations. They take us to the next evolutionary level.

however, a Poet writes-hard with soft-eyes to swell from the cocoon of his words so they fly as moths to your flame - we don't light the fire, we lift up a mirror and show you the coals-glowing in your eyes ...

re: the great deception ~ perfection  jenn  6 Mar 13 1:07PM Thread Closed

Alch says it a lot better than I could ever.. I feel what he says but my words aren't poetic :)

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