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re: for the sake of our own  PollyReg  6 Jun 17 9:40PM Thread Closed

As for 'admitting stuff on the internet" you are never going to write anything other than 'trite' with that attitude. Be as normal as you like but while you're at it watch your poetry disappear up its own poop shute. Who cares? internet/shminternet. If you'd really given up ego you could say what you liked, right? We are different from one day to the next.

re: for the sake of our own  unknown  6 Jun 17 10:05PM Thread Closed

Auden not really a poet. Care to elaborate.

re: for the sake of our own  PollyReg  6 Jun 17 10:11PM Thread Closed

^There's your opportunity not to reply to me, Cadmium. Unknown saves the day again ;-)

re: for the sake of our own  PollyReg  6 Jun 17 10:15PM Thread Closed

Okay, I confess! That unknown was me.

re: for the sake of our own  PollyReg  6 Jun 17 10:21PM Thread Closed

For u, Caddy:


Gotta get ready for work and kiddies to school. Have a good day, y'all

re: for the sake of our own  cadmium  6 Jun 17 11:27PM Thread Closed

no sense of music -- it's like he tried to un-queer his writing so he could hide his actual queer. a poet's got to write in music. it's not what we say, it's how we make what we say work. auden's audience wasn't a poetry audience anyway -- it was a prose fiction and non-fiction audience. calling auden's work or even t.s. eliot's work 'poetry' was just a sop to allow what was technically prose with funny line breaks to come into the public at all. that auden was communist meant that a kind of essay was pre-digested and made into candy: "poetry" so that it could be read at all. and, then there's the myth of the poet in england. a useless creature only tolerated because emasculated or some powerful person's lover. take your pick with auden.

> Auden not really a poet. Care to elaborate.

re: for the sake of our own  unknown  7 Jun 17 6:33AM Thread Closed

And Byron?

re: for the sake of our own  cadmium  7 Jun 17 7:15AM Thread Closed

> And Byron?

musical, self-encouraged, but not someone i read anymore. though, in looking at some of his poems because of your question i was moved by certain lines. but, i sometimes have trouble with story poems -- their form is actually neither poetic nor novella -- no chapters, no parallel lives for the reader to hang on to during the main free-fall. even though people say byron is the echt poet. don't need the poet hat and cloak. rather be swimming naked in a summer lake.

"And even at moments I could think I see
Some living thing to loveā€”but none like thee."

he wants to be Shakespeare. Shakespeare's lines work because they're dynamic in a play. but, talking to yourself, no matter what exalted  things you say, must lose -- if it come not from heart and root -- the soul; and, soulless, fade away. he fades.

how about you? what's your vision of byron.  

re: for the sake of our own  unknown  7 Jun 17 12:44PM Thread Closed

Musicality yes, certainly less clunky than Auden
His life (only 36 years) always reads much more interesting that his poetry, but then I may have a personal aversion to English blue blood.
Hard to be entertained by lines you were forced to learn at school without much discussion of them at the time.
Now I prefer Buk to make me laugh or cry -- seems a whole lot easier for me to relate to -- even though his life seems boredom personified.

re: for the sake of our own  cadmium  7 Jun 17 6:13PM Thread Closed

bukowski, you mean? that's funny. i was lucky because when i was 16 i read lawrence ferlinghetti's 'a coney island of the mind'. great beat poetry, musical and funny too. but, formally, interesting writing as poetry -- good rhetorics. i don't know if people can get him anymore... i mean, that he was so immersed in beat and be-bop jazz, even though he's as hipster as anyone at the time. bukowsky is kind of culture-neuter, like a street bum -- timeless, and mostly doing what's done and can't do what's not done -- i mean, not like burroughs -- so, i never got into him. and, he was after my time, really -- i didn't even hear of him until robert crumb started his comix on him. i mean, that nobody mentioned him in the late '50's and on to me as somebody i had to read. whereas, everyone had a copy of coney island in their back pocket, along with howl and some gary snyder, and maybe alan watt's zen book. by the way, 'coney' is the only one of larry's things i can still read. he immediately turned into an institution after coney and that period. i can call him 'larry' cause he's such a really nice guy, and i could go into city lights books and just talk with him like i'd talk with you here -- about what's what. alan watts, on the other hand, you'd have to kiss his ring first. same with ginsberg, a real dick too. can't stand ginsberg, except for 'howl'... everything else just too flat-line, depending on saying interesting things, no? and trying to keep the verse as normal as a letter. poetry ain't normal. it's cool to me to try to write mantra and prayers, but those -- let's get beat -- 'cats' chanting those mantras and buddhist prayers were doing it in music. i think ginsberg just wasn't musical. in person, he never even talked about jazz, just his head trips. that was very un-beat.

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