poetry critical

online poetry workshop



Unit 4
starr

She gets fucked in their bedroom
 1
directly behind my kitchen wall-
 2
 
 
My dishes fall and shatter
 3
from his every forceful thrust.
 4
 
 
Then he beats the shit out of her-
 5
He's that kind of man.
 6
I feel and hear her pain.
 7
 
 
She serves him dinner
 8
after having slaved over a hot stove all day
 9
controlling the flame
 10
if nothing else.
 11

In memory of L. Tinsdale and Lathrop Street.

5 Aug 08

Rated 10 (8.4) by 2 users.
Active (2): 10
Inactive (19): 2, 3, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

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Comments:

turkey necks was better in my opinion.  leave the tupperware for now.

i am having a difficult time figuring out who is listening to the chaos down below; a neighbour in a apartment building?  why does she leave the narrator his turkey necks?  

this poem reads a little vague, and if you are going to use deep-throat (one of my personal favourite phrases), i see no need to say 'dick'. a re-vamp of line 10 is in need.
could you re-word it? how about line 8 too while you're at it?  
"she gets plowed" is not working very well.

good violence, brutal discoveries.
=-)
 — unknown

Better?  Thanks!
 — starr

I lived next door to Bobby and Lisa and their bedroom was the other side of my kitchen wall.  I heard this every few months for four years.  She would leave hot meals outside my door to be nice; maybe as if to say, "I know what you hear and I'm sorry if it disturbs you?"  I don't know.  I just lived there.  :-O
 — starr

I forgot to even thank you for your very helpful notes/critique.  So "thanks!"  I think this one's gonna need a little more help.  I struggled even writing it because I've been under a dry spell for a couple of months.  :-(
 — starr

i like the contrast that S3 gives to the piece and think that it is
where much of the poem is and that "a hot" is just a bit arbitrary.

a delight to read on the whole.
: )
 — fractalcore

Thanks frac!  I tightened it up a little bit more, although I wouldn't necessarily call it a "delight" to read!  LOL! But, hey...it's my first piece of new writing since a three month-long dry spell.  Thanks again and I hope you're enjoying the summer, my friend.  I'll be camping until Friday up North until Friday night.  Can't say I've ever done that before.  Should be an experience.  I'll write about it.  Take care!  :-)
 — starr

Wow. Nice flow.
 — themolly

this has got something cinematic in it, well written, sad brutal story, but she seems to be a nice person..
 — nisetru

excellent opening line.

i would lose line 8 as it seems you are blaming the alchohol for his behaviour and although it is probably six of one and half a dozen of the other, i think it would make him seem more like the bastard he is if he don't offer him any excuses.
 — raskolniikov

sorry, that should read, 'if you didn't offer him any excuses'.
 — raskolniikov

4 A part ment (or meant)
nice poem starr
can you take out an and at the end.
 — unknown

Thanks, themolly, nisetru, rask and unknown.  Rask, I got rid of L8.  You're right about the alcohol.  He just sucks even without it.  And unknown, what "and" do you speak of that I should get rid of?  She IS a nice person.  She's just "stuck" like so many women are.  :-(
 — starr

I think you meant the "if" at the end, so what I did was eliminated that preposition and replaced it with a comma instead.  Right?  :-O
 — starr

This is almost too raw to bear.  Do you need pelvic in line 5?  It's already clearly implied in line 4.  It's as though using pelvic is thrusting it into the readers already shattered face.

Nice job with a tough topic.  The ending adds the cherry.  
 — Isabelle5

starr, this was the sweetest discovery of my day,
but I do agree with Isabelle about the "pelvic" in L5.
it takes the power from the thrusting

which is never fun.
 — 6saysaysay9

true grit in Poetry takes the lid off of Pandora's box and reveals its mysteries -- here you've painted the brutal picture of our monkey DNA flowing in our blood with Alpha fuckers getting their way -- L11 - 13 reveal the pathos of the Poet and a poignant way in which misery is tempered with a Human kindness reaching from deep within -- pelvic thrust works as a double barrelled shotgun -- your eyes see clearly and your pen writes with that clarity which is the boon and bane of the Poet -- well writ starr
 — AlchemiA

hmmm I gave a 10 and now you've got two 5's from some previous critics -- nevertheless the pome speaks loudly of the plight we've created in our class based hierarchies --
 — AlchemiA

i sort of liked the "if" there but
who am i to say?

nice edits.
: )
 — fractalcore

Thanks, every-1 for the kind words.  I'm vacationing in Maine and just checking in to say hi and I'll see everybody next week!  xxoo Starr :-)  p.s.  I took out "pelvic." :-)
 — starr

Hi, why aren't you outside looking for 'small??"  haha
 — Isabelle5

kind of a cup of tea, so as to say: not. yes. rather cosy is what i mean.
nicely worked out at the end there, which is the crux- to say something- and, you know, he doesn't please my crotch but thats a given what i'd like is for my thingy's to maybe fall off and hide in the closet while the poem is glued inside my skull.
but, instead, i can walk through and come out as myself. that is kind of sad. the world is a sad kind of place.
 — DeformedLion

Hi Isabelle!  I'm back!  It was beautiful up there.  Saw a moose for the first time in my life too!  Thanks for the comments, DeformedLion.  This is what I lived across the hall from for 4 years.  Definitely interesting to say the least.  :-O  
 — starr

Brilliant.
 — magnet

Brilliant dedication. Poor poor street with so many broken souls.
 — wasp

Thanks, magnet and wasp.  I'm honored that you think so.  :-)
 — starr

bobby and lisa and lathrop don't like poetry? -- forget them, and read a book instead.
 — joey

Thanks, Mike!  I don't even think neither Lisa nor Bobby were literate enough to READ poetry, let alone LIKE it!  :-)
 — starr

humm, starr, this is a pretty klunky piece -- i didn't recognize it, but that's more about the way you really are a poet and invent different ways of writing depending on your inspiration and where your verbal is at. i suppose this one is real and exactly the way it should be, but it seems to much to be telling a story that the poetry part is getting in the way.
 — joey

That's a good thing then, Mike, that the poetry is getting in the way, because I'm not a storyteller by any means.  I'm a poet.  Thanks for that recognition.  :-)
 — starr

nice edits Starr.  (that was me, your first commentor).
i like how it's straight forward.  line 5 sounds overloaded.
might suggest ridding 'powerful'.
thanks.  i hope your dry spell is lubing up. hehe.
=-)
 — jenakajoffer

Jen!  I got rid of the adjective.  Thanks and love from your favorite "Shitdawg."  
And I had no idea that was you up there!  The dry spell is gettin' lubed!  :-)
 — starr

yah, and you should maybe write stories sometimes to get this stuff out of your system. poems are so much better.
 — joey

I usually journal for that, Mike.  I'm not much of a story kinda brotha.  My stories are inside my brain and usually come out by sharing experiences vocally with others.  This was based on one of my earlier journal entries from when I left Massachusetts in 2003.  I'm at a point in my life where I need to write about things I haven't been able to let go of and to embrace and celebrate, rather than write about the good things I've yet to go through.  I struggle with being a happy poet.  I'd rather be a happy person and a deep, dark and disturbed poet.  My muse is very wounded, very angry.  The poems heal the pain when I can spit fire with words.  If I don't write them, I end up hurting unsuspecting, undeserving others.  That's what the notebook is for.  If that gets hurt, I just tear out the page.    
 — starr

nice to see the "if" back.
: )
 — fractalcore

Awwww, Frac.  You're so cute.  :-)  Yeah...need the "if" in the mix here.  
 — starr

journals are noodling, and form is form. i'm not so interested in you personallly, as much as i'm interested in what you're doing about being you -- i don't want to hang out, tell jokes, say things; i don't hang-out well. the story is boring, but i know that when you're forced to say something, you say it with real poetry. i think this thing is just written for exchange in the market -- i don't know what you need from the market, since you already have a soul and talent.
 — joey

The only thing I need from the market right now, Joey is a pack o'Reds. and a 1/2 gallon of milk.  That be it.  Nite nite.  :-)
 — starr

I really like this poem.  Perfect ending for this poem.  True story or not? I cant tell.
 — Inspire

Hey, Inspire.  Thank YOU!  This poem, sadly, is based on a very true story.  They lived in the unit next to me for four years.  They were nice to other people, just not to each other.  Thanks again, for likin' my stuff though.  :-)
 — starr

love your new poem starr.  its really sad and im sure many women in this situation will hopefully learn something from it.  good write again my friend.
 — unknown

Women won't learn from the poem, only from experience.  

one who knows
 — unknown

from experience indeed, unknown.  From experience indeed.  :-l  
 — starr

that's the stupidity of narrative poems -- that we think we're putting it to someone. a real poem is better, because we put it to ourselves -- work out the form and pattern of experience by finding the pattern in our mind and mood which it seems to represent. the poem is our own map. this verse of yours, and all other narrative verse, is just a tourist's bureau description of the place and not a map at all.
 — joey

scary and true; written simply yet eloquently.
 — unknown

I love this one.
The openness, and honesty of all the ugly in the world.
A fav.
 — thirdeyris

Thanks, thirdeyris.  :-)  
 — starr

You should move your dishes.
 — Salamander

LOL!  That was 6 years ago.  I just switched to paper plates & cups after that shit.  :-)  
 — starr

that's the stupidity of narrative poems -- that we think we're putting it to someone. a real poem is better, because we put it to ourselves -- work out the form and pattern of experience by finding the pattern in our mind and mood which it seems to represent. the poem is our own map. this verse of yours, and all other narrative verse, is just a tourist's bureau description of the place and not a map at all.

^ Get over yourself.  As if YOUR poetry says anything.  Go flutter with your bright wise wings and stop playing with my poetry and putting it in the Top Rated with your 8 usernames.  Better yet, DON'T.  More readership for ME.  :-)
 — starr

so, you deal with crits by calling someone a name, not addressing the actual thoughts being given? is that because you can't really spare the time to think, or because you know it all already?
 — cadmium

^ Get over yourself.  As if YOUR poetry says anything.  Go flutter with your bright wise wings and stop playing with my poetry and putting it in the Top Rated with your 8 usernames.  Better yet, DON'T.  More readership for ME.  :-)
— starr           [!]

^  Where in this do you see "namecalling?"  And I probably know a lot more than u do because I don't brag about what I KNOW, which makes me more credible and only leaves what YOU KNOW up for question.  
 — starr

for six years now, it's been 'who are you to not like my poem?? do you have any poems in the top-rated??''

that's just infantile.

watch me critique and comment and you'll learn how to imitate the college guys, learn how to move in artist's society -- you're getting old, and the only thing you've got is youth and lively, and when those leave you'd better have a craft and art you can show to people in order to be invited to the dance. that's the one thing i can give YOU, since you're unable to hear complex thinking.
 — cadmium

ignore the pedophile cadmium / bauer
 — unknown

I don't care about anything you say, Mike.  You're not my speed.  Ba-bye.  
 — starr

i know, i feel good about life and am really happy with the world, so, yes, i'm faster and smoother, since i'm not slowing from watching people watch me... those little speed-bumps on tremont and all their sketchy looks.
 — cadmium

Well, u just keep that 2 yourself since your sense of self-importance is in high-drive and everyone's got your #.  Didn't take long.  You'd be the one at the party whom every-1 would wanna escape, let alone indulge in conversation with.  You're so not very interesting.  Maybe you were a Bounty paper towel in your last life where you're so self-absorbed in this one.  :-)
 — starr

L 7  s/b because he's that kind of guy ?
 — cassell

Effective and succinct.  Stumbled a bit on L2--it seems too long, maybe?  L10--I think 'closed' might be more effective.  'Silent' makes me think no one is home as opposed to ignoring the situation.

L7 is fabulous.  It lets us know you don't comprehend that type of man.  Not that you don't comprehend it happens but rather that you could never see yourself acting like that...you know what I mean...

I love the final stanza.  It tells me that you have a deeper understanding of abused women than most.  Having 'been there' I can say that a lot of people blame the woman for staying, having no understanding of the slow, insidious, psychological manipulation that precedes the physical abuse.

Well done, my friend, well done.

XO
 — sybarite

My friend's cat will one day will be mine. I will lay down the law,  does this willful decesion makes me -  an insidious, psychological manipulter  ?
 — unknown

Hey, guyz:  Thanks 4 reading!  cassell, I don't understand your question and syb, as always, thanks 4 all your comments, suggestions and constant encouragement.  I love u2!  xo  :-)
 — starr

I wanted the Man to be turned into Guy, like John Lennon's  Jealous Guy for Line 7. I think Guy is more hip.
 — cassell

Hmmm..."guy" would work, but "guy" is also more casual.  I wanted to paint the picture of a "man" who batters his girlfriend.  With "man," the reader gets 2 paint it for themself.  Does that make sense to you, cassell?  "Guy" is too familiar and I didn't really know him well enuff, so I chose 2 call him a "man."  :-)
 — starr

The title is well choosen, it has an impersonal feel to it, like an industrial unit. It gives life to the poem. Genius .
 — Rossant

LOL!  Industrial Unit!  By the noises comin' outta that apartment, it SHOULDA BEEN an "industrial unit!"  Again, I'm honored and overjoyed that you relate to what I put out there, Rossant!  It's a beautiful thing!  Take care and keep in touch.  :-)
 — starr

syb!  Thanks!  I just saw your note about switching up "silent" with "closed," but I went with "locked" instead for the "fear" factor.  Love u.  xo
 — starr

Some slight enhancements/revisions.  It's an "oldie but goodie" and it needed some freshening.  :-)
 — starr

^
bump
^^
bump
^^^
bump
 — unknown

LOL!  :-)
 — starr

And U sit and listen,
in a sad feministic ass woopin,'
U hurt yourself today;
because, U beat your self to the sound of a
women being beaten, and
in the fear,
you tried to land the jizz
in your ear.
 — percocet

maybe you are trying to make a character, maybe you are trying to joke, or maybe this is your life. Anyways, I wouldn't write a poem about this unless it meant something to me... which it doesn't.  My mansion has many rooms.
 — percocet

Not MY life.  It was the life of the couple that used 2 live across the hall from me 10 years ago.  MY life is very peaceful and I'm with the one I love for eight years now and we have a very loving, honest and beautiful relationship.  :-)
 — starr

I thought this was a unit in a textbook and surprisingly it is very disturbing and masterfully rendered.  I particularly enjoyed the way you put the "thrusts" of the actual intercourse to music by going with the bold font.  This would read marvellously at an open mike in my opinion.  Fantastic writing!  j
 — unknown

LOL!  Thanks, unk.!  Nope.  Diff'rent "unit!"  Thanks 4 the AWESOME feedback and glad u like it!  :-)
 — starr

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