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two boys they hold hands

two boys they hold hands,
first time "just be friends" β€”
he holds his hand, says,
          "my best friend".
two boys, they hold hearts β€”
how do they live,
when life's so mean?
they hold each hand, say,
         "this is me and i am you"
i hold this pen,
you read these words.
                                               dec 2003

6 Feb 09

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in india its a sign of friendship to hold your mate's hand when walking down the street. i dont think this is gay, its a very nice sentament. i believe there should be a "," between boys and they in the title
 — bear

same in most parts of non-media conscious europe too. that's, in fact, where i saw this kind of friendship -- in Italy, in the spring.

i wanted the idiomatic, at that time, and the comma isn't really necessary, no? i mean, it always seems to say that there are two boys holding hands? no? and, isn't the grammar of the poem of the poem? invented in the poem? and the comma -- a modern solution to the problem, but only a solution, not the explanation of what the break means consciously, just logically. as W. says, ''logic must take care of itself'.
 — geckodrome

I wish this were clearer or had more of a story line.  I still object to the grammar of "Two boys they hold hands."  Grammatically, it should be "Two boys hold hands" or "Two boys holding hands."  Two boys, they hold hands is the kind of phrase every English teacher marks in red when it's written by a student.

You could drop the , in line 6 since line 7 is not a different thought, it's part of the same sentence and phrase.

How do they live when life's so mean?

Can you show us how life is mean?  This is all about emotions but I don't see any of the friend part, holding a hand is such a small part of friendship when you're a kid.  There is also beating the stuffing out of each other to see who is the biggest, strongest, fastest and biggest boy on the block.  

Not sure that "They hold each hand." works very well.  How many hands are you talking about?  I have had many friends and as a child, not one time did I say, "This is me and I am you," even with the few who became 'blood sisters."  Children don't think philosophically that way, they are in the moment, doing, not saying.
 — Isabelle5

it's shit. rated 1.
 — unknown

I think if i was still a young boy "two boys they hold hands" would feel the right thing to say. The poem is like a little bubble, that house two innoccent boys - flaoting around, and not making much noise.
 — syrossoul

Well, that's the problem for me, perhaps.  I've never know any normal boys to sit and hold hands and be quiet!  I don't know these boys, never met them in my life.  That would have made a difference, if I had.
 — Isabelle5

thanks, syrosoul --  this one was written after 'trying to write a poem', and it just came to me, as a gift. and, yes, it's pretty much a pop favorite of adults and kids who've read it. check the last stanza though, and imagine that it's actually that i'm writing this to my 25 year old friend, to just be friends. but, i only found the ending after i'd written out the word-imaging, watching the words fold together. pretty much an automatically written poem.
 — geckodrome

It seems to me that people rate Gecko's poems based on how they feel abut him more than how they feel about his poetry.  It makes no sense.  Do you think Spenser was a "nice guy"?  Not to say one has to be nasty to be a poet, but if you judge the art on how you feel about the person, then how is your critique of the art valid?  Would be interesting to see how Gecko's "unknown" posts are rated.  

PS, if you wish to flame this post, please dial 1-800-I'm a dick sucker I love to suck a dick
And if someone picks up you can talk all the shit you want about me
Just type in your number back and follow it by the pound key
And I'll be sure to get back
As soon as there comes a day that I fall out with Dre
Wake up gay, make up with Ray (Hey!)
 — Haxxen

yah, even then, it's hard to know why they 'dun't like me'. it's really because i don't like some writing here and say so. when they write something i like, and say so, it confuses them... that's pretty funny to see. like, 'i don't need your comment, could you say that again?'. kids with keyboards.
 — geckodrome

This nice little bubble is full of love , alot of men don't even know what that means.
 — syrossoul

'gays' are the worst -- they confuse love and lust, like any trailer trash straight, but put it out that any critic of lust is a critic  of 'gay', and that's bullshit. i get the best responses from  straight men and women -- especially parents -- on this one, and the most uncomprehending and sometimes nasty comments on it from hair-dresser gays. i used to think that gay was more intelligent -- i was 16 when i thought that, but all my gay friends were professional artists and writers. funny way to grow up, no?
 — geckodrome

 — unknown

substitute 'jew' for 'gay', in your comment, then read C.'s poem on eichmann. then go make a reservation for valhalla... for two, if you've got a boyfriend.
 — geckodrome

Just mainly adding to Isabelle5's words...I've been around children a lot in my life; this is not how children declare friendships.
They play, they send each other to the hospital, they break a few laws along the way- this is how I've seen boys become friends.
So it's easier for me to see this as a romantic poem, even though your footnote is trying to steer me from that view.

The fairer race is a slightly different story...I can almost see an exchange like this between two young girls.

and even though it is an "automatically written" poem, I'd love to read an expansion on the piece.
 — PricklyCooki

The reality is, this is an imaginary piece by the author, as those with actual experience of children know their behaviours, the author here is making up a reality.

which is fine, but he should be more careful what he says regarding 'subjectivity'...
 — Mongrol

it's one of those tightly written and emblematic pieces that we find often in poetry -- more so in the past, when people had more energy. i've found, talking with people, that people who've been around kids recognize this point -- and it's seen in movies too -- how kids can simply grab each others hand when in need. or, in Le Regle du Jeu? how, in the penultimate scene, schumacher grabs marcel's hand when schumacher's decided to shoot lisette? old guys... french, yes... maybe that's the thing. maybe this little poem wasn't written for anything but as a little folk-poem. you realize, i hope, that a gesture made by women with women -- holding hands, kissing -- is a human gesture and not a feminine imperative? this poem is for the redemption of all that's good about being a human and male. what's good about it? it's human.
 — geckodrome

It's not 'human', is an imagined 'human'... this isn't based on anything actual nor LOL emblematic!!!

My god, do you actually read your frauds before you write them out, before you try and twist your way out of your own fakery?

Wow, you even try and introduce some old folklorist references in there to justify your own nonsense LOL

Just can't stop laughing at this absurd piece of drivel.. the poem and the replies you make..
 — Mongrol

yah, well, i have a thirty year old daughter and i've taught school and i've read a lot of books and seen films and talked with people and traveled too. plus, i'm an intuitive, and i've been a kid myself. why didn't you ask if i'd actually not had this experience myself? i'd tell you.
 — geckodrome

More lies.
 — Mongrol

you can't stop the truth by simply denying it. you can't re-make yourself as virgin by fucking me, either. i've been a kid, i've been in love as a kid with other kids -- i've had friends, and i've had, as a kid, enemies -- nothing personal though -- just people who wanted to take advantage. bullies. you remind me very much of a bully.
 — geckodrome

Truth? haha

you're a liar and a fraud, why would what you say here be the truth?

I doubt you've know the meaning of the word.
 — Mongrol

That's rich, you calling me a bully...

LOL... makes me laugh at you...
 — Mongrol

On this site you seem to limit what you post to poems about men. That's why I made my comment on switching the conversation to one of two girls, besides the realism factor which I'm going to let Mongrol and you figure out for yourselves.
You say that gestures like holding hands are more "human" than "feminine"...this is very true, but in this piece you're only focusing on the masculine. Maybe that's why I still feel unsatisfied with it.
 — PricklyCooki

Thing is i agree with your switching your conversation - as it made sense to include the other half of the species..

and i think you have said what i've been trying to say for a while, without being absolutely direct about it... gecko doesn't actually think beyond a very narrow masculine interpretation of language, intellectualism, reality... to him, all is male.. for him to even think 'human' is a challenge, as this doesn't seem to include the feminine perspective, or reality, or life..

it is something he lacks entirely, but will insist on imposing as an absolute...
 — Mongrol

p.k., you understand that men have been writing women's reality for them for the last thousand years? why shouldn't i write about men? i'm gay, yes, and that's the engine of desire, but not the engine of creativity. i don't know why you've never thought that the boy is father to the man -- that we're boys before we're men. i held hands with my friends. that's not contrary to nature -- it 'is' nature.

anyway, you're not writing about the form of this, the poetry part, and that's what this poem is posted here for. it's not jerry springer on 'pervert boys' :)
 — geckodrome

The Beatles made the song,"I wanna hold your hand" as the human attribute to the affections we're all endeared to -- thus this endearment is the vehicle of our song to connect with each other through tentative yet courageous reaching toward another -- the heart is an organ of Love utilizing all these human attributes, hands, head, lips, eyes, tongue, penis, vagina 'n toes, all extensions of a heart that knows not prejudice nor discriminates but lets loose it beat in the song of Love -- here you've captured this nuance in holding hands
 — AlchemiA

"p.k., you understand that men have been writing women's reality for them for the last thousand years?"

Again, another deception in his answers.
This is not about the last thousand years of men writing women's reality for them..  this is about you deeply narrow masculine perspective.. that only allows you to speak in one voice, and it doesn't speak for everyone ..which is why this does not work... that's the point

you are a liar and a fraud..

 — Mongrol

glad to hear that i'm real for you. i love you too.
 — geckodrome

Don't need words shoved in my mouth, Mon. Speak for yourself in your insults.
Every poet has a bias- for instance, most of what I write involves women, and that's very possibly because I'm a female myself. Gecko's doing fine with the subject matter, but I'm curious as to what he would write about women, since I haven't seen him write on them. That's all [b]I[/b] was saying.

Geckodrome- Yes, men have been writing on women for awhile...but I partially agree with Mongrol here in that (and ONLY in that) you shouldn't avoid the subject just for the sake of rebellion..which you may not even be doing. Like I said before, I write mostly on women, but this is a natural thing. They're easier for me to write about, and that's about it. I was thinking that someone with more writing experience (like you) might have found a way to conquer that natural bias and write on somthing against it (like women). If you have, I'd like to see the result :].

The actual writing here (which I do need to comment on) is very good, as with the rest that I've read from you. I might have put in a couple more line breaks, but besides that I like the overall structure. Definately doesn't deserve the multiple "1"'s, but that seems to be how the cookie crumbles.
 — PricklyCooki

actually, i've written about my mother and my daughter and my two wives, but i don't post them here because i don't really know anything about being a woman. i do know about being a boy and a man, though, and being in love with men. i can talk about that as poetry. the other stuff'll get published when i'm dead, and have a life of its own. i just don't want the women in my life to only have the life for you that i've made them in my poems. it's like how i don't carry photographs in my wallet, because my image and memory of them is so very dynamic to my moods. photos look different at different times, but a photo is about time and not emotion.
 — geckodrome

Hmm.. I see. Oh well. It was simply a request, no pressure.
My demands are done for now.
 — PricklyCooki

I like the poet, I'm just not sure about this poem.  I also find it offensive that anyone here, especially after our recent problems, would say they will purposefully be nasty on Mike's poems.  I wish we could eliminate that spirit here.  We all want less censorship but there are still those who want to censor only certain people.  If I were still in Psychology, that might interest me.  On a poetry site, I find it hypocritical and small minded.  
 — Isabelle5

look at me, i'm just too avant garde to capitalize my i's. inconsequential subject matter, uninteresting, pretentious, and bad. do you know how to use a semicolon, or are you too cutting-edge to use proper punctuation? doesn't the universal abhorrence of anything you post on here say anything to you? you're a troll, and you're not wanted here.  
 — snow

i don't know, snow... people here like what i post and like my comments. i think you're making something out of what you want of it, but i also think you're not being very good about poetry. you don't seem to know how to read it, for instance, and you think that poetry is supposed to look like an obituary in the Times? all tight and closed and unambiguous.

funny that, liking the children's poet, 'simic', you can't read a poem written out of children's innocence. this is simply a nice little poem -- nothing for you to be so upset over that you have to destroy the poet. it's not the poem that will harm you.
 — geckodrome

snow - another "poet" who gets a poem in the top 15 and decides she has to grow big hairy balls - Mike is an established writer, probably been writing for twice of your lifetimes. Don't be offended, try and understand.

- fellow poet
 — unknown

"fellow poet", this has nothing to do with me having a poem in the top 15... if you read my own comments on there, I admit that it is imperfect and I know I have room for improvement. I may have been acting brash by coming here, but it's because of the way gecko has trolled every single thing I've posted or said on this website, without me prompting him. maybe it's true that he's been writing "twice of my lifetimes," but where I find established writers is in books, not as trolls in online workshops. this isn't an awful poem, but it's nowhere near the published poems that gecko will tear down, just like he does everyone whose conception of poetry doesn't line up with his perfectly.

 — unknown

i didn't troll anything of yours. it's probably that we both commented on the same poem, and then, too, you had that thread you messed up -- the 'what does a poet...' thread. if i were trolling, i'd be on your current thread, the one with the retard music, and how this bubble-gum music is 'owning' you. i'm not, because it's not my discussion, not even about what i call music. good if you'd get wise and realize that the poetry discussion here is on a level you've never experienced or had to respond in.
 — geckodrome

right gecko, great restraint you showed in not trolling the actual music thread, but making fun of it here instead. very mature of you to call it "retard" and bubblegum music... look at the actual music, by the way. Tom Waits as bubblegum music?
 — unknown

yah, tom waits is totally sesame street. strictly for kids -- nobody writes like that except for money. have a nice music-snack.
 — geckodrome

duality as/is a constant tendency, correct?
all things are possible like why can't two
boys hold hands and be not judged?

this is the space where singular/linear
should be avoided to get to the core
of the poem and find the poet there.

thanks, Alc, Gynoid, and Mike.

but where's the core really?
: )
 — fractalcore

vietnamese soldiers were seen to hold hands and be close to each, they coveted that closeness  during brief lulls in battle... this carried over from childhood i am sure... when in combat Marines could not hold hands, only weapons but we held each others hearts, since we covered each other in battle, this was true until your friend was killed and carried out in a body bag, then we held hands,the gist of this is being boys this was a happy time, we could only looked back on,for us life was... mean, line seven, this brings back flash backs from the viet nam war.
 — goeszon

"right gecko, great restraint you showed in not trolling the actual music thread, but making fun of it here instead. very mature of you to call it "retard" and bubblegum music... look at the actual music, by the way. Tom Waits as bubblegum music?
β€” unknown"

Open Dialog File: Babel 9.


Don't forget, unknown, that gecko/Mike Bauer is a composer.. is a far better lyricist/musician/composer that anyone else alive today.
He will tell you this himself.

His envy reveals itself in his comments about Tom Waites."


 — Gynoid

thanks, goezon. that's what this was about.
 — geckodrome

hey, grindoid, i am a composer, but that's a symptom, not a solution to music. tom waits has a nice style for boys and girls, but he's not about music or lyric. rogers and hart were about music and lyric. i write music which i'd like to hear myself, and that's something in itself. that might be what waits is doing too, and smiling about it. i can't see that he's doing more than billy joel does with his fix on tasteful.
 — geckodrome

The title is much better than the poem. The poem just trips on itself and falls in the mud, and if the other boy is still holding its hand he'll get pulled in too. The comma on the end of line 1, the quotes and dash on line 2... hell, pretty much all the punctuation looks like it was put in to look like punctuation was being played with deliberately, rather than sensically.

I can't stand "life's so mean"; it refuses to allow me to read it as anything other than a possessive, not "life is".

Kill the ending comma on 1, 3, 6, 8 (really, line 10 is the only end-of-line comma that works, that's not redundant, that's not a flow-killer); put the period in the quotes on 4 (no real reason to not; it's as grammatically likely to be part of the quote as not, and looks a hell of a lot cleaner here); kill the 'he' beginning 3; kill the dashes and the quotes on "just be friends" if at all possible or phrase the lines better so's to not give all that awful clutter. It'll work much better (and makes "life's" tolerable, because, yes, the rhythm works better with the apostrophe).

Clean it the fuck up. (And yes, that does require the swear. All that punctuation is so pretentious it makes me angry. And I *like* punctuation.)
 — unknown

semaj, it's just a simple little verse, it's not a poem at all, and doesn't try to be. it certainly wasn't written to impress you.
 — geckodrome

I've read this piece a number of times along with some of the undeserved nasty comments.  This is not about being gay, it's about friendship, cameraderie, happiness between young boys.  And yes, boys do hold hands--check out some of your local sports teams, they do it all the time, from little league right up to the pros.  Better yet, check out the poem "Happiness" by Raymond Carver and perhaps you'll have a better understanding of where this poets coming from.
 — PaulS

thanks, paul, i needed to read this. i was about to take this down, but i like the poem so much that i wanted to strongly share it here. i think that the effect of this only works in a world like this, where people are damaged in their sex, and can't be friends at all. in italy, maybe, this would just be a common sense verse, and the last stanza would be understood to be what this poem's about -- about me writing to a friend. but, in the writing, getting there, that took a leap off the page for me, too -- i saw the image as an emblem -- why would two boys be holding hands at all? and, watching it, seeing that it wasn't from fear -- clutching -- but, from wanting to speak with their hands, to show that there was a solid connection which words didn't work to show. people go on, here, about how poetry says what can't be said, and then those same people go on about what i've said about 'not able to say'.
 — geckodrome

"it certainly wasn't written to impress you". What a bullshit response. You post it on a poetry critique website, you get a critique, and you dismiss it by telling the critiquer that it "wasn't written to impress" them.

That's the kind of pretentious attitude that gets Mongrol harassing you at every turn.

I don't care if it's a 'poem' or not; that's a semantic game that you enjoy playing, not me. You're the one who loves posting the 'what is poetry?'/'what is a poet?' type threads, and when I did bother to respond to them, my position was always the antithesis of yours: it's a title that someone gives something to make themselves feel more important, an essentialistic construct to reinforce one's idea of (self-)grandeur. Gecko, it makes you look like a twit.

Now here's the thing: I *like* the line "two boys they hold hands". I think the idea of the poem's not a bad one. And if you get rid of all the garbage that you threw in it that doesn't 'impress' me then it's got a decent sense of rhythm to it.

If you disagree, that's one thing. If you're going to be an asshole about how you disagree, then maybe I should apologise to Mong for trying to get him to stop harassing you before.
 — unknown

Stick around semaj ;)

Mike/gecko will create a new enemy out of you just to develop this perception he has of "the more your peers hate you, the more you must be doing right."

What Mike/gecko doesn't understand, or appreciate is.. by calling someone names, like a 6 year old in a playground, doesn't quite have the same rebellious kudos a truly gifted, talented, rebellious and anti-insider culture writer actually has..

Mike/gecko wants this myth surrounding him, and will layer illusions on to it.. but it's very much all smoke and mirrors..

 — Gynoid

i'm thinking, semi-j, that a poem isn't a story, hasn't the same syntax or grammar as the contracts you're worried over, and that none of the critique you write reminds me of any kind of poetry crit i've read. it looks like a crit for a comp 1 class in college, and this isn't about 'law-clerk grammar'. if you read this out-loud, you'll find the poem in it. if you can't find the poem in it, then it wasn't written for you. thank allah that he gave you a good memory for prose-bites, because you're not striking me as someone who can invent a writing, much less a poem -- word object which is its own grammar.

i just don't care that someone like you doesn't see this in any way as viable -- even if it's just on a young-adult level. the good thing about this is that it is a liked poem, in the real world, and doesn't need to be written to impress you.

and, if you can't understand the difference between verse and poem, and you're not interested in what i think is 'poem' in this,  then why are you even trying to crit it as poetry? it's posted in poetry critical -- read it critically -- find  what works and doesn't work for you, and re-write the fuckker -- are you a poet or not?
 — geckodrome

Perhaps you've never read any of my stuff. I'm logging in to make it easier for you.

I could give two shits about 'law clerk grammar'. That's in part my problem here: that you've taken more rhythmic language and tried to force it into a 'law clerk grammar', which evidentially you can't see. Here's a tip: you don't need punctuation at the end of every line. That reads as attempting to force the rules of a set of grammar on the verse format that does not fit. My suggestions were designed, in a large part, to make the words on paper be read the same way that they would be spoken. Your punctuation insults the reader's intelligence, says that they don't know how to read it, and attempts to force unnatural pauses and halts. It doesn't guide the reader, it bludgeons the reader.

I could hardly care less about your petty attempts at insulting me as "not striking [you] as someone who can invent a writing, much less a poem". Again, you've obviously not read any of my stuff. I understand that grammar is set of tools to create meaning, not a set of rules to establish coherency. Coherency itself is a part of the grammatical toolset. I *like* playing around with grammar. I like playing around with language. That's why I come to this site, to explore language, how meaning is created, methods of communication. I don't come for art, that self-indulgent excuse to justify 'poetry' as some sacred cow. Art is about ego. Communication is about ego as well, but it's more honest about it. Poetry and verse are means of playing with communication. I say this as a writer, as a painter, as a musician, and as a critic.

As for rewriting the fucker, well, that's what I did in my first crit. Evidentially you didn't read that, really, thinking that grammar-lawyering isn't valid as a critique, which is again a bullshit response because if you'd actually looked at it you'd've noticed I wasn't grammar-lawyering, not in the sense you seem to understand. So to make it easy on you, here you go:

two boys they hold hands
first time just be friends
holds his hand, says
        \"my best friend."
two boys, they hold hearts
how do they live
when life's so mean?
they hold each hand, say
         "this is me and i am you"
i hold this pen,
you read these words.

Much cleaner, much easier to read, doesn't trip in the mud like the original. My only concern with my version is that by removing the quotes on l2 I may have removed some element of meaning, but frankly they don't convey too much additional meaning when they are there. If they are important, then I'd say that they didn't succeed in making their point.

And again, if you disagree with my critique, that's fine. That's your prerogative. But continuing to be an asshole about it is not fine. And claiming that someone "doesn't get it", and attacking the person's credibility without any basis (such as your self-inflating "couldn't invent a writing" claim - as if you're credible enough to make that assessment, hah - or "your crit doesn't remind me of any poetry critique I've read", which just means that you've don't know a helpful critique when you see one - but right, you have to read it for it to be helpful, I forgot) is the cowardly retreat of an asshole. Learn to take a critique. Learn to respectfully disagree. Learn to get your head out of your ass.
 — semaj

Tch, ignore the backslash. I don't know how that got in there.
 — semaj

i need the commas as rhetorical speed bumps, to control how the poem reads.

first time just-be-friends;
he holds his hand, says, my-best-friend.

two boys, they-hold-hearts;

they-hold-each-hand, say:
this-is-me, and, i-am-you.


one thing that is the truth of paged poetry is that it's proved when the author reads it aloud. this one i've read aloud maybe 40 times, at readings, and it's on a DVD of a studio session from a few years back.

this is a link to me reading another poem, and maybe you can hear how i'd be reading this one too. thanks for making the effort to re-score this for a smarter looking page. the problem is that people don't read poetry here as cadence and rhythm, and i think i need and want to keep all the interpretive markings, just to help people read it. since you're asking, yes, people read from my setting the way i want it. some don't read it at all. i have to say, that i have only respect for your doing this, since, to me, it shows that you want a poem to actually be a poem, and that suggests you're a poet and not looking for story after all.

 — geckodrome

link to 'quartet'

htt p://vodpod.com/watch/950448-michael-bauer-quartet
 — geckodrome

this quartet was part of a series of southland poets. i was filmed as a southland poet -- southern california. i didn't mean no harm.
 — geckodrome

bump for comment. thanks.
 — geckodrome

l10 - 11 make this a Poem of connection -- reaching off the page to touch the mind of the reader with this so simple affection, this human love we can share with each other -- holding hands -- a simple well executed image with a hint of contrasting friction of same sex love -- the writing style makes it seem child-like and innocent without all the complexities of wayward words of Philosophizing or wise-guy sayings
 — AlchemiA

Hello. The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.
I am from Switzerland and , too, and now am writing in English, give please true I wrote the following sentence: "To make airline reservations, please call hmp travel at ext."

With best wishes :p, Tyrone.
 — unknown

Excuse me. Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia. Help me! Could you help me find sites on the: Payday loan. I found only this - payday loan online. Histamine released from mast cells caused dermatitis in type I allergic reaction. Anti allergic, immuno modulatory, anti inflammatory, hormone stimulatory, anti in the cases of allergic diseases like asthma, urticaria, and the like, it can. Thank you very much ;-). Tabitha from Equatorial.
 — unknown

yes, but those people have to live in australia and they don't look back -- and, really, isn't it like that, 'if i get to heaven before you do, i'll drill a little hole and piss on you' -- ??
 — trashpoodle

this is a passably decent poem, with a fairly ordinary format, and though each line has a sympathetic energy with the previous and next lines, this is another "plot twist" poem, which I personally find uninteresting, as to say something profound in an ordinary way is expressed in text too mundanely, most often.
 — unknown

well, there you have it. you're correct, if you were looking for a poem. but, not to see it as successful genre -- mother goose -- makes me think you're not a poet... don't really have a hunger for words in patterns to make emotions.

or, maybe you're just dead at heart.
 — trashpoodle

i always liked this poem, and it's because of the way it moves.
it's also because it's so loving, as love as innocence.
 — jenakajoffer

thanks, jen, i like that you found the music in this. it still moves me when i read it.
 — trashpoodle

i don't know how to write a poem like this, i don't think.  i can feel the music in this poem, but i cannot write clearly with music in mind.  

i am aware of the rhythms when i write, and try to make it right in my head when i'm reading it, and i KNOW when something's off, but i don't consciously compose a poem knowing where to place the notes and the scales, or what timing i want to use.  because this kind of poem seems to be musical first, then poetry. and that's great.  but does that make sense?
 — jenakajoffer

jen, i don't even know how to write one like this myself! -- it was like it just 'came to me' and 'wrote itself'. i feel like what some mother-goose verser might have felt: 'where did this come from?"

but, i do think we have to have a musical soul to even allow this into our head -- most people are going to filter it out as 'childish' -- even the poets here -- because it's not ponderous and bookish like they know a poem of value should be. but, really, isn't it this kind of thing -- this words in a pattern -- which people hold in their mind and keep and say in certain moments, not even knowing why? isn't that what poetry has always been for all of us?
 — trashpoodle

well it certainly is for me.  i get parts of poems stuck in my head all the time; pieces of poetry from here, and from other sources.  in fact, one from SirIClan, and another from Chuckles, are two that have always been sung in head from time to time. =-)
 — jenakajoffer

that's more real, isn't it, then some "short story with without worrying about characterization"? it's always what i've carried, and i've just opened up to more kinds of poetry as the years went on. like, i knew all the mother goose rhymes and tried to make my own up -- and, then my mom let me read her '101 famous poems' -- all the poems reid likes to lay on us as authentic poetry. and, i got lost in that book -- like entering the castle -- the form of the poem -- and watching what happened there. i learned how to read all kinds of poems, both from trying to write in forms i didn't understand, to throwing myself into the poem and trying to find the voice and cadence -- and, poetry, for me, has always been the shared thing passed on from generation to generation... not an 'improvement' or 'maturation' of poetry, but simply poetry which had to be written at that time and no other.
 — trashpoodle

 — jenakajoffer

you must have had some kind of similar experience -- no? i mean, your t.s. eliot thing is pretty 'smart', in the sense of chic and, well, 'smart'.
 — trashpoodle

i've had experiences which seem to take control of 'me' and as you've said 'written themselves' it's an out-of-body thing, and when i look back at the finished product, i wonder 'who' it was that wrote it-- and that is when i feel i've achieved something much greater than sitting at the desk trying to think of fancy words or themes that might sound cool.  i want to get up and dance to what the words say, not get fat watching them stroll by with my eyes half-closed.  

so, what's my ts. eliot thing?  that must be your personal reference. ;)
 — jenakajoffer

boring shit
 — unknown

ts eliot...sorry, just figured it out-- gjenkins wrote that, not me.

it's funny that it'd be someone else's poem for you to think i'd written something really good.   ah well, the name must've thrown you?
(but i've only one account! ;)
 — jenakajoffer

it did, i thought that was yours, and that you were taking chances writing -- trying to write 'wuthering heights' or something, just because you could.

i'm embarrassed, sort of -- but the eliot poem was pretty nice.
 — trashpoodle

This example of holding hands with a friend both men and women, with an arm over the shoulder for men also, is common in friendship the idea is I would think love for each other as friends it is casual and spirited too... this county worn torn is Vietnam... other nations are somewhat squeamish and have another form of fellowship patting on the back and shaking hands hard or soft over even a buss.... j.s. smiles
 — goeszon

"they hold hearts"

rating just went down to a 1
 — unknown

do you really think that your rating means anything, if you can't just read this as a kind of kid's rime told to grownups on commencement day?

are you out of your mind, or just out of a job...
 — bmikebauer

I have more of problem with boys holding hands than holding guns.
that's what a fucked up right winger I really am. and I don't care what you think.
 — unknown

i wish you'd write 'two boys they eviscerate each other', then, instead of this pansy shit posting as unk and saying whiny shit all the time.
 — bmikebauer

Sex with women seems downright pornographic. - w.s. burroughs.
 — unknown

if this actually were about sex, then burrough's comment would be pedo here. but, since it's just about two friends, then the thought of getting it on with someone your mother's age would be pretty gross.
 — bmikebauer

People in this world are so stupid and moronic. This general American culture is plain retarded: it acts like everything it doesn't know is bizarre and freakish. Holding hands between boys is perfectly normal...it's just in this country, people seem to have such blatant insecurities about their own sexuality that they have this maniacal desire to shun anything that may threaten (sway) their sexuality. Hand holding is not sexual...boys and men in other cultures do it and I'm pretty sure boys and men have done it in the past.

I swear people in America are idiots.
 — unknown

yes. the obvious thing about this little verse is that it's just two boys holding hands in friendship. it happens a lot, this kind of thing, but it's a private thing for boys and girls to share. so, the haters are doing a Waco on these kids, and burning down their house just because there's suspicion. and, i don't know anyone more sissy than a politician... they're spineless and deceitful... and, this little verse was supposed to just show a truth and purity that we all must have once had... maybe... although some kids are born old and evil...? is that it? but, that's kid's movie stuff.
 — bmikebauer

i feel the musicality this is what makes it similar to poetry. it's still just verse, a motto for a wall, but it's got the traditional feeling that people really love in poetry.
 — bmikebauer

jeeps, i forgot about this one. i kept having to re-register in new names because the mods kept banning me -- sometimes even deleting all my comments and work. seig, fucking heil to the queens of mothersplaining conformity.

comments pretty much sum up with i still feel about this piece. gecko had to turn into 'trashpoodle' because gecko was so impolite and smelled too male.
 — cadmium

i like this still. no matter what people thought of me as gecko, the poem is all that matters. here, the posting and crit is all that matters.
 — cadmium

very romantic
 — Rossant