poetry critical

online poetry workshop


as if the dark's were never in your shadows
and even they knew what it meant to shine,
darkly grace in mixtures of ugly, and I
inconditely taste of your beauty
and struggling to hold on, as demersal things
hysterically soaking ideas in the bottom of
oceans, hidden with every bit of you, running
in the depths of me, and the foggy ocean
knew not what to make of us, slowly seas moving
towards pitch black and blue, as time hurried to
agitate the rising of black nights, yet calmly
as feathers, shadows falling upon your smile,
black holes conspired against your light
and you didn't even dim... I wish never to
win your love, but to be a-part, mixtures
like the wind in your hair and the ocean breeze, and although
to you oblivion holds me, to me our whole life re-appears

11 Feb 09

Rated 10 (8.5) by 5 users.
Active (5): 8, 10, 10
Inactive (8): 1, 1, 6, 8, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

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nice insinuating line in this, with nice wording, and with the focus always seeming to be on the object, your thought of 'it', and what that means to you. very real evocation of both situation and of strength, seemingly allowing you to control the situation through us, through our reading.
 — geckodrome

Thank you, this subject means a lot to me. If you understand this poem you'll get what It feels to me, losing someone you care for.
 — unknown

that's kind of all i really understand. i was hoping it was this, and that i wasn't 'reading into it' my own trip. nice read.
 — geckodrome

Really like L13-15 and the style of this piece.  
 — sybarite

Line 2 - 'even them knew' Is that to be 'even they knew," speaking of the darks, whatever they are?

Inconditely - can't find a definition
demersal - can't find a definition

Lines 13-15 are very strong but the rest seems almost dreamlike, that half awake state of talking but not using words that make sense.  

Not sure what to make of it.
 — Isabelle5

-Inconditely -
Badly constructed; crude / [Latin inconditus : in-, not; see  in-1 + conditus, past participle of condere, to put together

-Demersal -
1.  Dwelling at or near the bottom of a body of water: a demersal fish.
2. Sinking to or deposited near the bottom of a body of water: demersal fish eggs

thanks for L2
 — unknown

incondite, from my concise OED, has it as 'ill-put together'. and i'd read 'demersal' as, of not worthy (things)... like, 'un-warrented', un-merited'?
 — geckodrome

ough, la, la! : )

where did you find 'demersal'? my full OED is software, and down.
 — geckodrome

smggs. there it was online, all that time. a fisheries term. so, re-reading -- yes, 'bottom of oceans'.  

i'm dumb. nice poem.
 — geckodrome

Wow, thank you for those definitions.  Always good to learn a couple of new words.

Now, can you take the comma from after 'knew' in line 2?  It all makes more sense now.
 — Isabelle5

doesn't the comma need to be there for emphasis? the way the comma is used by the Elizabethans? shakespeare? to show 'meaning as emphasis'?
 — geckodrome

I don't know if it's "even they knew what it meant to shine" OR 'even they knew, what it meant to shine."

Different in emphasis, depends what is really wanted there by the poet.  
 — Isabelle5

the 'emotional', i think.

and even they knew,
what it meant to shine.

-- don't we, poets, figure and build emotion up out of difference and repetition?
 — geckodrome

Yes, Mike, but it's up to the poet, not the reader, to define it for us.  I'm waiting to hear what this poem's creator has to say.
 — Isabelle5

even they knew, what it meant to shine
(even 'her shadows' knew, what it meant to shine)
 — unknown

and, in using the comma, the author has defined how we're to read this. you're asking the author to drop the comma, not me.
 — geckodrome

I didn't ask her to drop it, I posed a question, asked if that's really what she meant.  Can you take the comma....that's not a command, it's a question.
 — Isabelle5

does every suggestion to you 'you asked her to drop the comma' have to always be taken by you as an authoritarian imperative?? it makes you seem reactionary. all i'm doing is simply dialoging, looking for the explication, not the final solution. the truth is always in the author, the poem is always the author's truth.
 — geckodrome

Well, dialogue with the poet, not me.  This is not our poem, it's someone else's.
 — Isabelle5

what part of the critical dialog, as shown in Poetry Magazine's letters section, did you decide you'd ignore today?
 — geckodrome

guys please don't argue over a comma,,,, thank you both, very very much, for your thoughts on this, I honestly appreciate it. I'm just happy someone enjoyed this poem...  
 — unknown

author, the dialog here in pc. is about poetry, and this comma business is actually pretty important for p.c.. there's no logical or 'parts of speech' reason for the comma to be where it is in line 2, but there is historical and literary reasons for it to be there. that's what we're talking about and why. problem with P.C. is that it isn't a beginner's site -- it's a full-on writer's site with many levels of writer and poet, and you can't expect us not to read you as though we'd written the poem ourselves... editing it, reading it upside down, looking for the author in it. and, isn't that better than, 'this is good/bad' comments? really?
 — geckodrome

I agree and I know you're right. I put the comma in it's place for emotion. Almost without thinking it just went with the sentence as if L2 was incomplete without it. It was my only way to express to the reader and myself that even her shadows, even they knew, what it meant to shine. I wrote that line because shadows don't shine, their shadows... ha but hers in a million did! (at least in a poetic sense... Plus let me just add I'm from Brazil, I speak Portuguese and my grammar can sometimes come off weird or wrong, but that comma was placed there for a reason I'm sure of that.) I appreciate so much your comments thank you sincerely.
 — unknown

another thing that's evident, is that the line sings better with the comma there, dividing it into harmonics.

another thing too, is that John Donne didn't study the same 'english grammar' in school which we study, but studied 'latin grammar'. the punctuation marks of the 16th century were inspired by reading, and reading aloud, and in his and his contemporary's poetry the marks are meant to show how the poem is supposed to be felt. modern english punctuation and spelling is really a product of business practice needing consistency for passing messages and making unmistakable contracts and orders.
 — geckodrome

I suppose my Portuguese grammar rub off into my English...
 — unknown

nice poem.
: )
 — fractalcore

Thanks Fractalcore :)
 — unknown

This is a beautiful and sad poem.  I would have to say that the comma in L2 after "knew" is out of place.  It serves no purpose there and it inserts a breath/pause where no breath nor pause is needed.  The comma at the end of L2 is fine.
 — starr

starr, don't you think that people tend to quick-read 'poetry', like it was a newspaper item? so, i'm reading this as a poem -- wording with cadence, and i make the pause naturally, probably as you do too? but, i think that the others maybe don't, and that they need the comma to slow them at that point. reading the poem as a sequence of melodic and romantic harmonies, that comma just is 'there' and not a stopper, since i'm coming to rest at that point naturally.
 — geckodrome

geckodrome you hit it on the money. It's not some comma that interrupts the sentence or slows you down or anything like that. It's there for emotion you pause right there for a second to give reflection to what was just read... It's like me adding an exclamation mark!! in the middle of my sentence. ?? idk if that made sense but that's the way I see it.
 — vida

vida, have you noticed that people who don't write english as a first language write some of the most beautiful english poetry? is it because they're free'd of 'school grammar' -- but, english grammar is what they learn! or, is it that they're coming from a culture which really likes poetry and song, and wants life and song everywhere, and not just in a 'music hall' or on the 'telly'? maybe it's only that most of the people here in p.c. aren't musical, and want blog truth and small-confession and quick word-snack. anyway, i was delighted when the author of this revealed that portugese was part of it. it's such a beautiful language.
 — geckodrome

yeah sometimes not knowing the rules gives one the freedom of innumerable possibilities, bending the laws of grammar one did not even know was there... It's important to know and understand grammar but I feel poetry goes beyond the normal surface of "school grammar." It should surpass into creative thinking and reading.    
 — vida

so I guess you don't like my poem, thanks for rating it a "1" that was pretty harsh...
 — unknown

any poem gecko comments on i will rate with a 1
 — unknown

i don't rate any poem with a '1'. i rate them all '10', so that someone else gets a chance to read it.
 — geckodrome

another reason to rate every poem gecko goes near with a 1
 — unknown

Just rate the poem for what it is, whatever happened to that idea?? Just give it an honest rating both ways whether high or low!! How stupid to have a rating system ran by idiots...
 — vida

the entire idea of 'rating' a poem -- where is that real? in what literary scene is 'i got a 10 at poetry critical' an important thing for an author?
 — geckodrome

the more gecko comments the  more i rate poems with a 1. simple math.
 — unknown

Thank you all for your comments
 — vida

great read!! 13-15L
 — unknown

black holes conspired against your light
and you didn't even dim... I wish never to
win your love, but to be a-part, mixtures --> sends a wondrous message of love
 — AlchemiA

Thank you so much... I really like those 3 lines too, very inspiring
 — vida

This is beautiful. i like the effect this poem brings upon me.
 — nurze

 — vida

not bad
but the punctuation could choke a donkey
 — chuckle_s

this is beautifully written-
my only suggestion would be to put a comma between 'you' and 'oblivion' in line 17
otherwise, very nICE...
 — JKWeb

Hey you know I was reading that and I have to agree line 17 is better now I think... thanks
 — vida

I took out the comma l 17
 — vida