poetry critical

online poetry workshop



No Such Thing as Shadows, Dragons, or God
sybarite

they lied
 1
 
 
when they said
 2
you were pretty
 3
complimentary sex
 4
thirteen year old girls
 5
believe anything
 6
 
 
fourteen--less so
 7
 
 
but you're smart
 8
     maybe too
 9
left-brained
 10
analysis of humanity
 11
as a whole
 12
 
 
     you wonder
 13
 
 
if evolution
 14
really was
 15
such a good idea
 16
and it's a poor God
 17
if this is the image
 18
 
 
glib pisses you off
 19
all text and no talk
 20
what happened to philosophers
 21
 
 
     and conversation
 22
 
 
you hate
 23
how tv traffics
 24
puerility
 25
take the blue pill
 26
 
 
 
 
 
 
there's nothing on
 27
 
 
insipid rescinds interest
 28

10 Jul 10

Rated 8.5 (8.5) by 2 users.
Active (2): 9, 10
Inactive (26): 1, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

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Comments:

Highly experimental piece for me.  Kind of a stream of conscience write.
I'd like to italicize L28 if anyone would be kind enough to explain how?-Thanks!
 — sybarite

this website is your ticket    http://www. pageresource.com/html/textags.htm
 — unknown

excellent read. will return a bit later to try explain why :)
 — jharrison

Thanks for the link unk--it worked!

Thanks for the read jharrison.
 — sybarite

i like this kind of writing, the way it falls so easily on the page. i wish the ending was stronger though... a combination of the too-cliche 'lowest common denominator', which could, at least, be acted out as a show of someone getting commonly denominated into brainless, and the last line, which is sort of flat.
 — bmikebauer

Mike--thanks for the feedback.  I agree, the ending falls a bit flat.  Do you think I should just eliminate the last line and end on "there's nothing on?"  I'll ponder the lowest common denominator and see if I can find a more creative way to express that.
 — sybarite

Some changes to the ending--better?
 — sybarite

naw, i saw that possibility too, and it didn't work. backing up the poem, i'm looking for the transition point where you shift voices. the first voice is the narrator's telling of what we're looking at in this scene. the second voice is where you explain why you're showing the scene at all. i think the break is at 23, where you ask us the question, 'what happened to [trying to stay as truthful and conscious as...? ] philosophers?' the 'conversation' is a let-down, because you'd have only been dialoging with philosophers, not giving them coffee... the reality point needs to be accented that it's a cultural thing beyond ordinary conversation -- you want a dialog with this person you're speaking to: yourself become lost in a welter of distraction, become adult and responsive, but with little responsibility for you own growth and development as a person. that's why 'you hate...' is so important.

as a work-around, to save the film in the editing room, i'd put the 'all text and no talk, what happened to philosophers and conversation' right after line 19's 'glib pisses you off. then run down the text just as you have it, ending the poem right after your 'there's nothing on with a line break, then your phrase, 'insipid rescinds interest'.

this would let the poem run down, like a clock mechanism and simply stop when there was nothing more to be said, but without the rhetorical question of 'there's nothing on', as though some better-mindless public culture program would take your mind off uncomfortable thoughts.
 — bmikebauer

sentimental-realism is compelled by a raging fire to burn brighter while mystical-cynicism has seen it all before, the love, the immorality, the war ... it's a clever piece taking away the negative space and popping the bubble of our human, all too human in-yer-end-ohs -- God is dead and Darwin sighed just before he died ... those who think can not be happy and those who don't, won't

the invertendo-man, hanging upside down, smiling a frown -- power and privilege as viewed from inside the asylum, where irrational greed is a creative-destruction rolling down that Sisyphean hill, the red pill we take before falling down the rabbit hole, where all of our outrageous needs, voracious fears and dirty-clothes go -- when Truth and Justice become the numinous thus moving-us in delight, the veil is lifted and the world is turned askew where love is the Power that we do - then we'll see with these two-soul seared eyes, inside-out without a doubt nor are we surprise'd from the surmise that the present world view sees itself as going up hill, rising from the hole to take the blue-pill and that the juggernaut of war is wise and the separating-fence of security is freedom... and hate is better than the boredom of this insipid puerility called mediocrity ... the blue-pill seems to be a smoke and mirrors misdirection - however the bite is write
 — AlchemiA

you hate how tv-tunnel-visions puerility in-infinite jest
how huddling in mediocrity is doing our best with less
 — AlchemiA

i like the anger in this poem.  lines 22 through 24 make me wish for real imagery or dialogue, though.  to me, it's a bit as if philosophers and conversation are so far consigned to where gods, dragons, and shadows have gone, that all there is left are wht they are called.  but that could be one of the very points of your poem:  such a lack of richness of life that there is nothing much left to say about it.  

the last line to me, is a knell that hit me first in the head, then the gut.  
 — pittsburgh

this poem speaks much truth
 — psychofemale

Mike--is this what you were suggesting?
 — sybarite

yes, something like this works it as lit. the italics are a little weird, but 27 has to be kept separate from 28, and an ellipsis would be too pushy, and a period on 'there's nothing on' would double-close the poem, and a semi-colon would join them as one thought and a commentary on it. the last line has to work as a commentary on the whole poem, i think.

like, maybe, without italics for 27, but italics for the word 'insipid', but it's not necessary for me. i guess i'm trying to keep your audience a poetry critical audience, and not my particular audience. maybe a comma after 27?
 — bmikebauer

Thanks for the reads and feedback, Alch, pittsburgh and pf.
 — sybarite

I definitely like 19-22 the way it is now--thank you.  
I was trying to avoid punctuation to further the stream of conscience inspiration...there is no punctuation in my thinking, it's a convoluted run-on sentence.
I'm going to drop the italics entirely and see how it feels.
 — sybarite

good use of line breaks

L28 rocks
 — NicMichaels

yes, the regular font does make both last lines seem like emblems on a stone wall, mottos, and then the last line turns it articulate again.

the last line seems a little off, but it's so direct. it's like reading latin, yes? where 'rescinds' is in some verb-form like past-subjunctive... forcing me to read insipid as both a name and a direction.
 — bmikebauer

Thanks Nic--appreciate the read!
 — sybarite

Mike--thank you bunches for the help with this one!
 — sybarite

Thanks also, alch, pf, pittsburgh, appreciate the read and feedback.
 — sybarite

II loved this, my kind of talk. Good write.
 — crimsonkiss

enjoyed it.
 — unknown

Thanks crimsonkiss and unk.
 — sybarite

Nice flow.
I believe in the spaghetti monster.
 — unknown

Thanks Unk--the spaghetti monster is my favorite invisible friend in the sky too!
 — sybarite

People need to believe in God, human beings are afraid of death and need hope,
why take that from them? Reality isnt mandatory.
 — unholy

Reality does help in the long run though.
 — unknown

We all die--a fact of life.  No one knows with certainty what happens next.  Believing in invisible friends in the sky doesn't change this fact.  I appreciate the read, unholy, but respectfully disagree, people don't need to believe in God, they want to believe in God and as convinced as they are, doesn't make a fact out of it.  

Unk--thanks for the read--I'm with you, reality is my choice too!
 — sybarite

This is a really, really good stream of conscience write--there is a BITE in these words cascading down the page.  love 22-26 and the ending is top notch.
 — PaulS

Don't do drugs and write! Tighten it up; too much rambling. Some good lines and word relationships, though.
 — unknown

Double comment: In fact, you might want to ditch the pseudo-artistic line breaks. It will help you realize what is broken and what isn't.

But you don't have to take my word for it...
 — unknown

shadows are as real as anything else - keep it surreal
 — unknown

awsome FORM where im FROM content seems contented also
\M/
 — unknown

As the late, great James Brown said: Hit it on one. Line 1 is not a stunner. And the idea is already well communicated in S2 and line 7.

Seems like you're missing a preposition to link up lines 11 with 8-10.

You use god as a common noun, yet you've capitalized. To me that implies internal conflict. I like that.

I especially love line 19. Line 20, not so much.

The last line seems to sum up the idea. I rarely enjoy that move, especially in the abstract.

Overall, though, I enjoyed this.
 — A

Too clumpy for my taste, but makes a decent scratch meal.
 — aurelius

it's not the only image...poor parenting i would say...wrong friends...bad choices...but good poetry!
 — Odin

wow... thats really good... all text and no talk... very nice line along with 17 &18 well done...
 — aven10

It seems to be aimless and spacey
 — pasnitro

    YOU BLEW IT THIS gOD HAS A LITTLE gOD $$$$ see you in hell... $$$
 — goeszon

This is half pretty good and half pretty average. I liked lines 1 to 3, 8 to 18 is particularly strong, but the rest feel like filler.
 — unknown

^ twas me :)

Also, title is great.
 — wendz

Ahhh so good! i really love your word choices. also the brief lines, they're packed to the brim. solid.
lovelovelove 23-26.
 — _fallenleaf

boompfh...
: )
 — fractalcore

very cool poem!!
 — unknown

Is not it pleasant to reach academic success? Isn't is good to have a possibility to buy essay? All that I ought to say supposes to be: "Yes"!
 — unknown

'Take the blue pill' -- I love this line! It conveys the futility and pain that the pursuit of knowlede and the exercising of intelligence can bring. Most of the world is happy enough to choose the blue pill... 'if i don't think about it, it doesn't exist'... Ignorance is bliss, they say. Sometimes our own powerlessness is frightening. Good work, love the way it evokes thought.
 — neimade

quantoom boompfh...
: )
 — fractalcore

Thank you, everyone, for the feedback.


Frac, thank you2
 — sybarite

Aww darn--that was supposed to be thank you with a super script 2 to indicate squared!
 — sybarite

excellent.
 — unknown

Oh yea, I knew I had read something before by you...

After L18 it loses its soul. Or, at least changes its direction in a way that might not be the best.

1-6 is great and reminds me of something I'd write. It's hard because when you come up with such a strong beginning it's hard to sustain. It does last, like I said, through 18 but then it rambles.
 — aliar

syb, just finding this.

excellent work, start to finish. no nits.
 — NicMichaels

oops. one nit: the dragon in the title's nice, but it's a throw away without some reference in the body of the poem.

maybe i missed it, but i need scales or something somewhere, or fire breathing, to complete the thread.

still love it, love it.
 — NicMichaels

Thanks Nic, appreciate the read.  The title is a reference to being removed of childish beliefs both through the actions of others and by my own observations and conclusions.  I genuinely believed in dragons as a child so it's more a personal reference than directly related to the content of the poem.
 — sybarite

and i think it communicates just fine on that level. but stylistically, there's a missing link that can be connected to improve the poem as a piece of art, as opposed to history. your call.
 — NicMichaels

Maybe she doesnt want to change it Nic whatever, you cant brow-beat the author to adjusting it to your ideal of the perfect pc. of 'art'. Stylistic or not she seems happy.
 — unknown

^Well said Unk.
Nic can be arrogant about what poetry 'should' be. And not just Nic, many are like that here. There are no should's in art.
 — unknown

^ I concur.
 — unknown

^tell me about it.
 — unknown

Um, nail on the head?
 — unknown

first of all, children, syb can more than take care of herself. we are peers, and i offer my comments with the utmost respect because she has proven abilities.

defending your choices as a poet builds art muscle. syb's fit enough. just check out her ass from all that work with assonance!

ye unks who cloak thyselves in weakness and anonymity couldn't be more wrong.

coming to a genre with an expectation of an aesthetic is a reasonable act, and i am a reasonable person.

syb doesn't need my permission to stop editing a poem, nor yours.
 — NicMichaels

Unks--I do appreciate your defense of my title, however; Nic leaves comments that are detailed, specific and about the poem, not the poet, and I appreciate her feedback.  

It's difficult to identify intent from text on a webpage as it lacks the facial expression, tone, and body language we derive meaning from in face to face conversation.  Nic's "tone" could be taken as brusque or simply direct.  Direct is good.  There is nothing more frustrating to me than critique that is tied in knots.

Thank you again to everyone who has commented on this poem.  
 — sybarite

It took me a long time to get to this, I kept putting it off because the first verse didn't move me.  Now that I've read the entire piece, I find it to be really intelligent.  It is bright and creative, yes, stream of consciousness that works.  It doesn't always, not easy to do.
 — Isabelle5

God does exist and your going to go to hell.
 — unknown

Good one!  Last line also doesn't quite work for me.  Honestly, I'd just drop it.  Otherwise I wouldn't change anything at all. Thought-provoking and easy to identify with in today's world.  This could've been really cliche, but you've expressed it well.
 — Caliana

Isabelle, Caliana, thank you for the read and comments.  
 — sybarite

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