poetry critical

online poetry workshop



teenage mother mary
RueUrsula

they say christ died on the cross
 1
but i believe there he was born,
 2
too
 3
the red crucifix on a white background
 4

20 Nov 10

Rated 10 (8.5) by 1 users.
Active (1): 10
Inactive (14): 1, 1, 3, 7, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10

(define the words in this poem)
(28 more poems by this author)

(2 users consider this poem a favorite)



Add A Comment:
Enter the following text to post as unknown: captcha

Comments:

nicely done
 — antipoetry

this is creepsville and an oddity to be sure. wtf?
 — unknown

<.<
 — unknown

$$
 — unknown

christ as image, isnt that what he is to us?
his name isnt even jesus. its yeshua or better still, Iesous. Yeshua is just a bastardized version of Iesous.
he didnt have blond hair or blue eyes.
he was the first zombie.
there is no historical record of his resurrection except by believers who wrote after the fact.
he is the biggest marketing product/tool in the world.
 — unknown

the unknown at the bottom-- i agree with you completely. this poem was supposed to signify the  the cross image of the pregnancy test and the crucifix. it sounds so mundane when you have to say it, right? nevermind this. his followers are zombies too, eatin the blood and flesh of their savior...
 — unknown

I dont dislike or like christianity. Yeah it's a good maketing tool, but I dont have strong feelings about it one way or another. Christianity is quite bizarre though, I will admit:

Christianity. The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Makes perfect sense.

Takes all kinds. I just rate it as poetry. And I like this.
 — unknown

she likes this. maybe put on a white background down on line 5? this says a lot.
line 3 is keen. *.*
 — unknown

warm
 — unknown

the cruci-fiction is art.
 — unknown

i have no idea why this is in recent best.

someone please educate me if it belongs here.
 — NicMichaels

I'll take two, and a pack of gum.
 — unknown

..because its one of the recent best?
 — unknown

this has a move: forcing us to see twice at once. and, that's a poetry move.
 — bmikebauer

dig it.
 — unknown

mike, you're talking about poetry moves?
 — antipoetry

yes. they're also called 'rhetoric' and involve putting phrases against each other to make the reader put them together into some mind space which like reality, even though it's all in words. your 'bob' is matrixed into a poetry space by contrasting him against the lamer faggot poets. that's a rhetorical move, a poetry move done within the art of writing a poem.
 — bmikebauer

it was a rhetorical question mike...
 — antipoetry

duh... but you're too inexperienced with writing and writers to see that i was commenting on you for other writers -- you let me define 'poetry move', don't you see? and, that's something that hadn't come up before with this crowd. my friends and i use this term, but i haven't seen anyone here pick up on it.

the whole discussion in this site is about why we write. it's all done in writing, so, why we write a comment is part of the talk. that's why it's ok in p.c. for you to critique my comment like this and the mod's don't ban you. it's about why and how writing works at all. you want your writing to work on some level, don't you? but, do you know exactly what level and for what readers?
 — bmikebauer

well done RueUrsula
 — unknown

i'm so pleased with the amount of feedback on this piece. thanks guys! you are the true meaning of poetry critical.... because you are poetry critics :D
 — unknown

yes, we should be telling you how wonderful you are to be able to run the marathon without getting up from your chair.
 — bmikebauer

um, i don't understand what you said there, bmike. It's just nice to have someone criticize your poems. I appreciate the dislikes as much as the likes.
 — RueUrsula

sorry, i thought that :D thing meant you were sticking your tongue out at everyone and all. is it supposed to be a big grin? -- i'm kind of retardo on these things if i don't use them too.
 — bmikebauer

naw mike, it's a smile. thanks for the crits!
 — RueUrsula

clever.
 — unknown

oh well thank goodness: tiny poem makes for another canvas for a discussion of poetics. what a relief. for a minute there, i was frustrated.
 — NicMichaels

i have completed the assignment - read poem two ways - it still doesn't touch me.
 — NicMichaels

niche, it's a poetry workshop not a twelve-step.
 — bmikebauer

I have to agree with Nic.  Granted, there is a cleverness, but it doesn't move me, and to be frank, it didn't make any sense until I read the author's comment about pregnancy tests.  
 — sybarite

if you read this outloud, you'll be forced to make some mind-bending redirection, and that's what poetry does -- it mimics how you think, not what you think. writing a poem is to put the reader in language land, not in some fantasy story space built on 'real life, just like i see on t.v.

clever is writing about miller and nin without wanting them to be anything but your dream of them.
 — bmikebauer

I did read it aloud, several times, and before reading any of the comments.  It just didn't make sense until I read the pregnancy test comment, then I found the "clever" in it.  

Perhaps it is my overly literal mind, as we've discussed in the past, and I'm going to ignore your barb at my latest write in another author's space.
 — sybarite

have you considered that you're reading too much for information and ignoring how the information is presented to you? when you write, you sing your lyric out and make it fit the way you feel. can you imagine, then, that the author of this poem is doing exactly that same thing, but in her own way? and, that to read it is to let everything go and read it as a song to music you've never heard before?

because, if all this writing is supposed to represent idea and fact, it's way lamer -- all of our writing, because it's done, then, as a trick, where all the author is doing is giving an opinion in your face without showing you how he got that opinion -- which is what a story or novel exactly does. the look and shape of the poem's word-choices, cadence and rhythm are the back-ground of the poem: the poem starts in the body and moves to the mind. the prose story starts in the mind and works to justify itself by grounding the idea in a natural setting.
 — bmikebauer

"have you considered that you're reading too much for information and ignoring how the information is presented to you"--you've defined "literal" so, yes.  You know I work on this failing as a poet and poetry reader but it's always going to be a struggle for me.

I do see the "poetry" in this, there is a rhythm I can appreciate, however; the poem still doesn't move me.
 — sybarite

what if you wrote this? it's not enough to say it doesn't move you, because 'move' is feeling. look at line 3? how do you explain in your 'feeling' the lack of a comma? doesn't that make the first pattern ambiguous to the second -- line 4 -- pattern, and make you want to either merge or reject first one or the other? you talk of people being 'pragmatic', but the pragma of a poem is the reading of it as non-linear, as working you on more than one sense level, and hence, more than one dimension.
 — bmikebauer

i'm reading this, by the way as using the image of the bloody newborn to represent that christ symbol the books write about, and that the pure white mother represents all motherhood -- all real life and how life is lived -- prior to laws about wedlock and what you're supposed to do to be a good citizen.

so, the image of this jesus token: on the cross, dying -- with this image of the mary token: mother of baby jesus are the picture of a life -- birth and death. reconciling the two is impossible for us -- we make excuses: 'he's coming back!!', or, in our lives, 'no one ever really dies'. but, this poem is saying that everyone really gets born, and born from woman, no matter what men think about that.
 — bmikebauer

I get the imagery and author's intent, though, as is your nature, you are able to find more in this than I can.  

Let's separate the ability to appreciate something from liking something as they are very different in nature.  I can appreciate the author's ability as a poet in this write without having to like it, just as I can appreciate someone's musical talent without necessarily liking the music they make with it.--makes sense?
 — sybarite

i think the failure of this site, is that people want others to read their poetry in a magic way, and want to read others poetry as a story of people feeling or doing something.  

you know that you're trying to show your feelings when you write a poem. and, you know it's not enough just to mention something which makes you feel -- that you actually have to show how and why you are real, by writing out emotion into the poem -- going beyond a police report of what the sunset looked like and why you feel lonely.

factoid people get hung up here when a poet repeats a phrase... like,

"he is all,
he is all i know"

and, they think that the author is supposed to get to the point. the point is in showing how you feel about 'he' in the first place, not in reporting that in some ambiguous way you 'know' him. putting the double 'he is all' indicates that the author feels more than just cool distance.
 — bmikebauer

Not entirely sure I get the connection between your last comment and mine.  

I don't think this site fails at any level as it fulfills different wants/needs for different people.  

All I was saying is that I can appreciate something without liking it.  I can appreciate the nutritional value of tofu, but will I eat it--no.
 — sybarite

i'm saying that you're expecting to be entertained by a poem, but that you expect others to 'experience' your poem.

i think you're not reading this as a poetry, yet, and can't critique it on more than a story level. i don't even know if it's just that you're reacting to the jesus thing, for instance and that that pushes you away. i've seen you respond favorably to poems written in this language, this style, when they were about cute or or happy/sad.

you didn't respond to my challenge about the ambiguous line 3, and that makes me think that you didn't want to, that it was so jenni-obvious that it needn't be talked about? or, is it that you didn't understand, and don't care enough to get into an 'argument about something as meaningless as 'poetry'?

the site is for poets and writers, and beginners who are just learning what they can do with words often defend their word-world by saying that all words are alike. in poetry, all words are invented for the poem. not to know that or respect what poets actually do, is to make poets into weak and passive versions of real writers -- the people who write novels about going with the wind.
 — bmikebauer

No, I don't expect to be entertained by a poem--That's exactly what I mean when I say I can appreciate without liking.  There are poems I like, poems I appreciate, and poems I like and appreciate.  This falls in the appreciate column for me.

I have no expectations of the folks who chose to read my poems.  I appreciate critique that helps me improve my writing but it isn't an expectation.

Regarding your comment about your comment about line 3, I wasn't ignoring it.  Don't make jenni comparisons with me.  I know all you're doing is trying to prod my brain into new thinking by being inflammatory.  You don't need to make digs to do that.  Your comments are layered, I have to sift through them and separate.

You're a multi-level thinker, hence your ability to write in and appreciate abstract.  My ability to think in multiple dimensions is a work in progress and is not likely to ever reach your bar.  We're wired differently, and that's okay, it keeps the dialogue open and interesting.
 — sybarite

then, why aren't you reading this as poetry...? you want people to fall into your poems but you don't want to let go and fall into others?

if i don't need to make digs, then tell me why you're not responding to my key observation about this poem and its meaning? if you can't see the reality of line 3, you're not getting the meaning of the poem at all -- and, that means you're critiquing something different from this poem -- some text about jesus or whatever.
 — bmikebauer

keep it in theory, too, please. we're not that different in our hardwire for this issue, because language is totally capable of shaping itself around our individual hardwired responses. you're overlooking the fact that poetry is a shared cultural experience and that poetry reflects our basic biological reality, not our addresses and phone number.
 — bmikebauer

I am reading this as poetry otherwise I wouldn't be able to appreciate it at the same time as not particularly "liking" it.  

I reiterate, I have no expectations of others who read my poems.  Now, let's leave my poetry out of this author's space.

I sort of get what you're asking me to see in your comment on L3, it's floating around my head, but no, I'm not entirely grasping your meaning.

We are hard-wired differently though, and coupled with that is a vast academic difference that makes me have to work harder to understand your concepts on poetry than you have to work to understand mine.
 — sybarite

line three wasn't supposed to be on a separate line-- if I recall correctly it was too long and got placed below it. ...I think.
 — RueUrsula

We are all born on the red cross, born in blood.  
 — unknown

This reads like a Banksy or a child Warhol after a hearing a stiff polish sermon.
 — unknown

so, time magazine reviewer, what, then, does the title have to do with the rest of it?
 — bmikebauer

Teenage mutant mother mary
Teenage mutant mother mary
Teenage mutant mother mary
Heroes in a half-shell
turtle power!
 — unknown

congrats on the new word you've added to your vocabulary: mutant
 — unknown

Teenage mother Mary would have aborted this bastard poem
 — bbmikebauer

And I would have adopted it and called it my own
 — bbmikebauer

the attack on this piece shows the un-human reality behind being only a prose writer and wanting everything to be a mind-trip, so the inner-lawyer in them can play 18 holes on the written.
 — bmikebauer

i can't believe line 3 is purely accidental, dear author.
that made the start of the poem for me and made me
look at line 4 a couple of times over.

if i may add, line 3 set the crux of/for the reader's crucifixion.
; )
 — fractalcore

great work. strong.
 — unknown

every word well placed. message is clear.
 — unknown

I strictly recommend not to wait until you get enough amount of cash to buy different goods! You should get the loan or short term loan and feel comfortable
 — unknown

this is written wonderfully
 — unknown

nice
 — unknown

cheap uggs
kate spade handbags
polo ralph lauren
ralph lauren
nike shoes
coach outlet
ralph lauren outlet
pandora outlet store
michael kors outlet clearance
polo outlet
adidas shoes for men
ralph lauren polo
c oach factory outlet
ray ban sunglasses
kate spade bags
canada goose
coach outlet online
michael kors outlet clearance
polo outlet
oakley sunglasses wholesale
ralph lauren
polo ralph lauren
adidas ultra boost
michael kors outlet online
mbt shoes clearance outlet
ralph lauren uk
kate spade outlet
mbt shoes
cheap oakley sunglasses
coach outlet
coach outlet
canada goose jackets
polo ralph lauren shirts
nike shoes
mont blanc pens
fitflops sale clearance
ugg outlet
ugg outlet
ray ban sunglasses
oakley sunglasses wholesale
nike shoes
polo ralph lauren
canada goose outlet
20170822wanglili
 — wanglili

0.382s